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#13350109 Jul 14, 2017 at 07:29 PM · Edited 1 day ago
8 Posts
I feel that I should clarify the statement. Jedi should not be balanced against non jedi. It should remain alpha. That said it's your server and I'm just along for the ride as long as it's fun. The advice was a courtesy take it as you will, or don't. No worries here one way or the other I'm M Powers...
P.S. AI only lasts as long as the force holds out. That's why Enhancer has Drain Force. When there are abilities in game to counteract the one in question but people don't know how to play their builds well enough to use them it's not a game mechanics issue.
Hera- Master Merchant/ Master Image Designer
Leah- Master Miner
+1
#13350116 Jul 15, 2017 at 01:34 AM · Edited 4 days ago
12 Posts
In my honest opinion if you think AI it needs to be changed but To make all party involved happy we should not have have a timer it should work just like force run 3 you can not attack it just helps you get away from a fight. What that being said once you hit AI Jedi toughness should be increased from 45 to say 70.

I also love this server and I'm trying to make this server the best of the best!!
+3
#13350127 Jul 14, 2017 at 07:41 PM
11 Posts
I'm among those that feel jedi should indeed be an alpha class because of the story and lore of SW and are, as a whole, extremely squishy and underpowered. However, that does not mean they should be so alpha that they.. well, like Savage discussed. I agree that AI as it is seems like an exploit. I'm a MLS fan and would never want to play the current Mdef/AI style. Mdefs should be the uber tanks, so I agree with upping defenses across the board (for all jedi a bit too, not just defenders) but maybe just make it a short timer, but so when AI is active it reduces damage output like Force Run 2 or 3... just an idea.

Cypherdias/E'on

PS - Savage & Sidious, I for one am happy you guys are working on all this and thank you very much for it! Even if at times I don't agree with the direction you guys take on some things, you're keeping the game and fun and alive so I'm grateful. keep at it =)
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#13350144 Jul 14, 2017 at 07:53 PM
8 Posts
I think a simple solution would be to raise the force cost of AI and perhaps beef up drain force as well so that it becomes a last resort with a more effective counter but the 30 min cool down nerfs it out of existence. Might as well just be zabrak and pass on defender all together and equilibrium as an Oh S... Button. Balancing BH vs jedi is a really bad idea. Killing babies solo should be no big thing but hunting a ranked FRS jedi should be a dice roll as a group sport.
Hera- Master Merchant/ Master Image Designer
Leah- Master Miner
+0
#13350157 Jul 14, 2017 at 08:10 PM
377 Posts
#13350144 Isabella wrote:

I think a simple solution would be to raise the force cost of AI and perhaps beef up drain force as well so that it becomes a last resort with a more effective counter but the 30 min cool down nerfs it out of existence. Might as well just be zabrak and pass on defender all together and equilibrium as an Oh S... Button. Balancing BH vs jedi is a really bad idea. Killing babies solo should be no big thing but hunting a ranked FRS jedi should be a dice roll as a group sport.



I did not mean to come across as you were insulting or anything like that I knew what you meant I just wanted to point out how it can be take. Now with that said..

"Killing babies solo should be no big thing but hunting a ranked FRS jedi should be a dice roll as a group sport."

So are you saying a Non Ranked Jedi (which does not exist currently on this server and probably will not exist in the standard live format on this server) are the ones that should be a pain for BH's to kill?

The reason I ask is before we put in Journeyman last time we asked the community if padawan (which is what all current jedi are) was the suppose to be an alpha class or not because based on that would determine what we added to journeyman. The results we got were that padawan was not suppose to be an alpha class hence why jourynman is the way it is.

With that said and knowing the current jedi are all padawans how would we go about beefing up MDef if their only true skill is AI and you are saying they should be swacked by BH in their current state but should be beefy when they are ranked if we do not make changes to the 1 ability they have currently?

I know not everyone understands where we are going with everything and that is fine as we don't always give you all the insight behind the ideas but just remember that you have journeyman, you have knight, you have FRS all still coming.
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#13350169 Jul 14, 2017 at 08:23 PM
8 Posts
I totally agree with how squishy we all are at finished template right now. Not only are you guys adding a different level (Journeyman) that I assume is the top half of baby jedi and real weak it the bottom indicates broad scaling meaning probably tougher at the top. So that's all good. The key to AI is force cost. babies have less force and less force regeneration so their AI will be less available than later in the FRS. How available can be fine tuned to the way you guys like it by raising or lowering the force cost of the ability. To give other jedi a stronger counter to AI the effectiveness of "Drain Force" can be increased. AI only works until you are out of force and by working that aspect of it you can dial it in to your liking with out making it a blue glowie novelty. How ever far you guys plan on developing Jedi and FRS rankings the bottom should be weak and the top should be tough and the bottom is weak enough to tell me that we are going to get big bumps as opposed to small ones. I like that. I think you guys do a great job and didn't mean to sound wrong. My intent is to simply be helpful. I'm not a defender and can't stand that play style so I was just giving my opinion albeit unsolicited.
Hera- Master Merchant/ Master Image Designer
Leah- Master Miner
+1
#13350170 Jul 14, 2017 at 08:23 PM
61 Posts
Every server I have played on tries the Balancing of the 2 "Alpha" classes. If I was to say that Jedi should not be able to be soloed by 1 BH, the BH community cries. If I say that Jedi should be able to PVP 1v1 BH and have a good fight the Jedi say that's BS cause they are the "Alpha" class and should be able to spam AI!

Other servers instead of dealing with the hoopla have just disabled Jedi altogether or never had them at all. After the last wipe it was the 5th or 6th Jedi I had ground out on the EMU servers that I have played on, including Bloodfin where powers was nice at one time, then they decided to nerf the block and lower the percentage. On revelation, they tried to make it a evenly matched system and it worked fine for the while then the BH would actually gang up , LIKE THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO, and killed the Jedi. Never, Never will everyone be happy with any kind of balance unless one side has an advantage, and that's a fact. Thus, in concept it will not function correctly ever!

My Suggestion;

1. Remove the player bounties. Will stop farming/Griefing/Complaining/ETC...
2. Make all Jedi/Padawan overt the minute they unlock.
3. Make pearls non-tradable, you earn what you need, get a group and get your own. Crystals can still be traded to get them started.
4. Make Jedi a Starting profession, a lot of NGEer's here, sure we would get new players, lol. Would definitely get the Action going with a lot of Overt's running around, lol.
5. Put the timer on the AI, let it ride, adapt or Die!

I have been here for over a year and we have enjoyed being a part of all the changes through thick and thin, but to stop and focus on a small Issue that has been blown out of proportion for the sake of one beating the other is textbook madness.
"When you do the same thing over and over expecting a different outcome and get the same result every time", is a interesting profile indeed.

Just some suggestions... :P

-3
#13350176 Jul 14, 2017 at 08:31 PM
2 Posts
I think with AI going to a 30 minute timer a lot of people are scrambling to figure out what their build will need to be BEFORE journeyman, so when it does go live they can go right into it. Yes, AI seems to be a deal breaker for quite a few, which is okay because defender is not the only way to go. My jedi is MDEF and I'm trying to figure out if I would be better off trying out something else. I understand why putting a timer on AI is needed and I do understand we don't know everything that's in the works. I agree that with the 30 minute timer maybe something else should be added... example being like what Bam and Cypher said... leave the timer out and make it where you can't hit crap while AI is on, like FR3. It would prevent those from killing turrets or soloing bunkers solely using AI, or SIGNIFICANTLY increase the force cost of AI. Make it where the MDEF would be out of force after 2-6 times of hitting AI. Both of those options would leave AI as an 'oh s**t' button and not a 'I can solo everything all by myself and screw it up for everyone' button. I know it's hard to please everyone because no matter what you do someone will always be upset. Please don't take any of this as complaining... just trying to throw some ideas out there.
Cora-CM
Arra-MCH
+0
#13350187 Jul 14, 2017 at 08:37 PM · Edited 1 day ago
8 Posts
I sense a disturbance in the force! It's as if SOE took your suggestion to heart once upon a time and called it NGE! And with it whole galaxies imploded and 10 million people went to play WOW instead.
#13350170 Thornes wrote:

Every server I have played on tries the Balancing of the 2 "Alpha" classes. If I was to say that Jedi should not be able to be soloed by 1 BH, the BH community cries. If I say that Jedi should be able to PVP 1v1 BH and have a good fight the Jedi say that's BS cause they are the "Alpha" class and should be able to spam AI!

Other servers instead of dealing with the hoopla have just disabled Jedi altogether or never had them at all. After the last wipe it was the 5th or 6th Jedi I had ground out on the EMU servers that I have played on, including Bloodfin where powers was nice at one time, then they decided to nerf the block and lower the percentage. On revelation, they tried to make it a evenly matched system and it worked fine for the while then the BH would actually gang up , LIKE THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO, and killed the Jedi. Never, Never will everyone be happy with any kind of balance unless one side has an advantage, and that's a fact. Thus, in concept it will not function correctly ever!

My Suggestion;

1. Remove the player bounties. Will stop farming/Griefing/Complaining/ETC...
2. Make all Jedi/Padawan overt the minute they unlock.
3. Make pearls non-tradable, you earn what you need, get a group and get your own. Crystals can still be traded to get them started.
4. Make Jedi a Starting profession, a lot of NGEer's here, sure we would get new players, lol. Would definitely get the Action going with a lot of Overt's running around, lol.
5. Put the timer on the AI, let it ride, adapt or Die!

I have been here for over a year and we have enjoyed being a part of all the changes through thick and thin, but to stop and focus on a small Issue that has been blown out of proportion for the sake of one beating the other is textbook madness.
"When you do the same thing over and over expecting a different outcome and get the same result every time", is a interesting profile indeed.

Just some suggestions... :P

Hera- Master Merchant/ Master Image Designer
Leah- Master Miner
+0
#13350191 Jul 14, 2017 at 08:41 PM
61 Posts
And EQ2...



#13350187 Isabella wrote:

I sense a disturbance in the force! It's as if SOE took your suggestion to heart once upon a time and called it NGE! And with it whole galaxies imploded and 10 million people went to play WOW instead.

#13350170 Thornes wrote:

Every server I have played on tries the Balancing of the 2 "Alpha" classes. If I was to say that Jedi should not be able to be soloed by 1 BH, the BH community cries. If I say that Jedi should be able to PVP 1v1 BH and have a good fight the Jedi say that's BS cause they are the "Alpha" class and should be able to spam AI!

Other servers instead of dealing with the hoopla have just disabled Jedi altogether or never had them at all. After the last wipe it was the 5th or 6th Jedi I had ground out on the EMU servers that I have played on, including Bloodfin where powers was nice at one time, then they decided to nerf the block and lower the percentage. On revelation, they tried to make it a evenly matched system and it worked fine for the while then the BH would actually gang up , LIKE THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO, and killed the Jedi. Never, Never will everyone be happy with any kind of balance unless one side has an advantage, and that's a fact. Thus, in concept it will not function correctly ever!

My Suggestion;

1. Remove the player bounties. Will stop farming/Griefing/Complaining/ETC...
2. Make all Jedi/Padawan overt the minute they unlock.
3. Make pearls non-tradable, you earn what you need, get a group and get your own. Crystals can still be traded to get them started.
4. Make Jedi a Starting profession, a lot of NGEer's here, sure we would get new players, lol. Would definitely get the Action going with a lot of Overt's running around, lol.
5. Put the timer on the AI, let it ride, adapt or Die!

I have been here for over a year and we have enjoyed being a part of all the changes through thick and thin, but to stop and focus on a small Issue that has been blown out of proportion for the sake of one beating the other is textbook madness.
"When you do the same thing over and over expecting a different outcome and get the same result every time", is a interesting profile indeed.

Just some suggestions... :P

+0
#13350340 Jul 15, 2017 at 12:03 AM
8 Posts
30 minutes seems a bit long of a cooldown for AI. 3 minutes would prevent the AI spam that you seem to be trying to work against. And at the same time allow Master Defender to play a role in pvp. The surprise invulnerability at a crucial time, making the attackers pay attention to when the defenders last AI.

30 minutes just makes the ability worthless.
+3
#13350373 Jul 15, 2017 at 12:29 AM
11 Posts
Sorry to change the subject, but I just logged in to test to see what was in and have a go with Cypherdias. Went and kneeled at the shrine and got the system message and went SF all as expected... then when I got to the starport I realized no Blue Frogs seemed to be in. Not a big deal, but is that intended? Went to Yavin light enclave and trained apprentice light journeyman. Message said it required 200k jedi exp.(I was maxed at 4mil). Trained and my Jedi exp went to 0. Is that intended? Trained a couple of manipulation boxes with combat exp, and again was shocked at the exponentially too high training costs. Is that really intended?
I quit there pretty disappointed by the experience and decided to go to bed. please tell me you're not intending to make it that difficult and tedious for us yet again. /facepalm /cry /sleep

Gnite...

Cypherdias/E'on
+1
#13350383 Jul 15, 2017 at 12:45 AM
8 Posts
#13350373 rLobster wrote:

Sorry to change the subject, but I just logged in to test to see what was in and have a go with Cypherdias. Went and kneeled at the shrine and got the system message and went SF all as expected... then when I got to the starport I realized no Blue Frogs seemed to be in. Not a big deal, but is that intended? Went to Yavin light enclave and trained apprentice light journeyman. Message said it required 200k jedi exp.(I was maxed at 4mil). Trained and my Jedi exp went to 0. Is that intended? Trained a couple of manipulation boxes with combat exp, and again was shocked at the exponentially too high training costs. Is that really intended?
I quit there pretty disappointed by the experience and decided to go to bed. please tell me you're not intending to make it that difficult and tedious for us yet again. /facepalm /cry /sleep

Gnite...

Cypherdias/E'on



9.2 million credits for full mastery I believe (Or something around that), with the way it breaks down right now.

If it was 100k for novice, 100k/200k/300k/400k per tier and 1 mil for the master journeyman box, that would be 5.1 million credits for full master journeyman.

Still expensive, but more reasonable for most.
+4
#13350621 Jul 15, 2017 at 06:22 AM · Edited 5 days ago
21 Posts
I love open debates, I tested everything on test with Jedi so far. Including powers, various builds vs bh, ranged, and melee stackers. Powers still needs help since I could barely hurt a mbh with powers so yes please keep working on powers they need it.

As it stands for ai I know a change needs to happen but a 30min timer might be really high since it's still good for pve. I honestly would recommend ai being higher fc instead of a timer. With a higher fc by maybe 200-300 force would cause Jedi to not spam it considering how high the cost would be. With a higher cost Jedi would obviously only be able to use it 2-3 times in a single fight. This would make it still viable for a build but definitely not an I win button. Any thoughts ??
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The force shall free me
+1
#13351226 Jul 15, 2017 at 03:11 PM
377 Posts
Guys I have to say you guys are coming up with great ideas and we are currently talking about it between savage, myself and Obi so keep them coming as we don't want to totally mess up things but we do know there needs to be a change to AI :)

Thanks guys for keeping this civil as well its great to be able to have an open dialog with out people going off the deep end.
+2
#13351287 Jul 15, 2017 at 04:12 PM
44 Posts
In today's issue of the "Troll Report"...

Bounty Hunters are snickering around the water cooler with jokes galore. "If a Jedi needs to spam AI to play the class, then they are easy prey"...

This has been today's report of fake news.
+3
#13352272 Jul 16, 2017 at 12:15 PM · Edited 5 days ago
479 Posts
Check out the patch notes for today that will be on test a little later.

And just to make things Clear....AI is currently being used as a God mode for all MDef (well most). They click AI, then spam force channel, so when AI runs out, they hit it again, rinse and repeat. Jedi's should not be able to kill 4 large turrets while being attacked by 3 other players. No way. It will stop, that is a current game breaker and has turned more people off than on.

WHEN WE ARE COMPLETED jedi WILL BE the ALPHA class. BH's will have to learn how to fight, or group up to kill their mark.

With your input and patience we will get there. I know other servers have failed, and that is their issue not ours. Believe me when I say, we will get it right. or pretty close to it. There is no way to 100% balance Jedi, but we will do our best.

Please keep the feedback coming, it only helps us!!!
+4
#13352351 Jul 16, 2017 at 01:13 PM
2 Posts
I just want to say I love you guys and how you take what we say into consideration and are willing to make changes based on our input. You are what make this server the best!!
Cora-CM
Arra-MCH
+1
#13352695 Jul 16, 2017 at 04:33 PM
11 Posts
#13352272 Savage - DEV wrote:

Check out the patch notes for today that will be on test a little later.

And just to make things Clear....AI is currently being used as a God mode for all MDef (well most). They click AI, then spam force channel, so when AI runs out, they hit it again, rinse and repeat. Jedi's should not be able to kill 4 large turrets while being attacked by 3 other players. No way. It will stop, that is a current game breaker and has turned more people off than on.

WHEN WE ARE COMPLETED jedi WILL BE the ALPHA class. BH's will have to learn how to fight, or group up to kill their mark.

With your input and patience we will get there. I know other servers have failed, and that is their issue not ours. Believe me when I say, we will get it right. or pretty close to it. There is no way to 100% balance Jedi, but we will do our best.

Please keep the feedback coming, it only helps us!!!




Thank you Savage! Awesome news!!!!
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#13352707 Jul 16, 2017 at 04:48 PM
2 Posts
I have played with all the fotm builds on my jedi and agree that AI is a problem to be fixed. My vote goes with the suggestion of limiting damage output like with fr2 and fr3 so it truly is a get out of the fight alive and not a dominate the landscape skill. With that in play, there is no need for a timer or further mechanics change.

Thank you all for what you are doing to keep the community engaged in the debate and build a server fun for all types of players!

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